No Ratings Performance Management: Lessons for Success



thank you very much should I start now yeah I think we should go ahead dive right in excellent well thank you marina for the opportunity to speak all of you I know it's kind of awkward almost like a comedian speaking to the the camera without the audience I'm doing this Netflix special show that without the audience but I would try my best to share our story and maybe in the meantime provide a little bit entertaining purpose for you so maybe I'll start with the little bit introduction of ourself logan HR we are a consulting firm that focusing on the I call that unfortunate nickname CPR many of you probably it's easier to explain to people what you actually do for a living believe it or not I've been doing this for 20 years my parents still doesn't know what I do for a living my mom think I'm payroll and my dad actually think that I usually go to company and deal with those problematic employee and this is his definition of performance management and joke aside really the the whole idea of having a boutique consulting firm focusing on they see P and R is really is trying to help organization connect companies and organizations career programs and their performance programs and rewards programs because a lot of times that organization either don't have any of those programs or maybe they have the programs but they don't really connect very well so well for example I the one of the example I always share with the audience is when someone complained about so-and-so is overpaid or underpaid most of the time that the reason is not because the dollars or how much we pay that person it's because that person is not performed properly or perform up to expectation um why that person is not performing well because the person probably is in a wrong career path or the wrong job and and that need to be addressed so many of the times that career programs and you will rewards and your performance process you really need to have that connection and that's what we are focusing on and many of our clients are from different sectors financial sectors technology sectors industrial and non for profit sectors although they're all different different sectors but human nature is the same we found that there's a lot of common thing when it comes to the challenge between connecting your performance program with your pay and career program and today we're going to be focusing on a few things first is I want to share with you some key consideration of your performance management program and and we it's actually quite funny that when we talk to you a lot of our audience and the clients they're constantly in the sort of redesign of the performance program face it is because it's actually very hard to get it right so we're gonna share a few a tangible tips about how you consider when you go through the design or redesign process of your performance process and we're gonna spend all the time talking about the ratings yes should we have a rating we're not have a rating last but not least many of you probably heard of those non rating system and maybe that's why you're dialing in today to really try to you hear about how does it work does it actually work so we're gonna share one of the recent implementation that we did with the client that we actually take their traditional performance process to a non rating system and what is the lesson learn from that experience so let's start with the three key considerations for performance management design or redesign the there's many different methodology or process but I think we'd kind of conclude that there's a three things that you really really need to be thinking through when you go through this journey first one is really is to determine the purpose of your performance man and we're gonna have more slide to talk about it it's really is trying to figure out the balance between the performers and the the need to align those performers the need to develop people and the need to connect to a work program the second one is to discuss the current trends and to see if those trends and approaches are good for you and why those shift is happening and the last but not least is a some of the key successful factors for the new design for the performance management so in this slide you will see that there's a three circles you probably also probably guess that my favorite number is three you're gonna see this this theme throughout the three things that we think it for the purpose of performance management the first one is needed to align the organization goals and objectives to down to the individual level and that's why you see most of the performance management program in their form or their online program you will see the goal-setting part or sometimes we call that goal cascading or key focus loose those area is really trying to connect the individual performers to what their team is supposed to do to what the organization is trying to achieve so that's actually the for a lotta organization that is one of the very important reason for them to have a performance process the second reason is to develop people and that's why you see a lot of fun has the development plan section career section some of them will be called competencies some of them will call behavior some of them will be a coaching session the idea is to help the employee to do better for their current job and also do better for their future job in their career with the company and the third element of the purpose is the alignment with rewards program this is where the performance rating is helpful because many times when we use the were saying performance management system need to be objective we need to have a clear connection with the pay program and that's when you need ratings because rating is a good way to be able to say well we have a number we have a labeling we have a words to describe the different buckets or different type of employees how they perform and really the reason we need to know that is when we actually use that information to determine people salary increase or for the organization has a bonus program or for the organization use that information for promotion and that way you have something as quote objective that you can actually use to connect you to the paper well Morse program so this three things are actually the most common purposes for a performance process now the issue is this three process it's not sometimes it's not necessary pulling the design to the same direction imagine if you really want to have an honest conversation about your employees development then right after you talk about things they achieve and not achieve it's really awkward to switch that conversation to say well things are you didn't achieve on those goal and then let's talk about how you develop that and the employee if the employee knows that those sharing the true weakness or improvement area that will impact their performance rating and their pay they may not actually fully comfortable sharing everything or discuss that with their managers right so I think the the lesson learned is really is with the stakeholders figure out what is your focus of your performance design because the the different different organization may have a different kind of focus and this is the exercise we usually do a lot and then you can do that with your stakeholders in your organization is just to use a sticky note and ask your stakeholder to put their ranking of this three purpose and to see which one is that the top-ranking purpose of your internal performance process and some organization maybe in this particular example on the Left they are probably saying that the driving the organization performance alignment align those performance goals and objectives are important but developing developing people are the most important reason we're doing this and aligning to the compensation and reward yeah yes but not the biggest one and but imagine in some other organization maybe the goal alignment is the most important things and then make sure that we have a clear connection between performance result and pay is very very high on their priority list right so I think it's important for for you to be able to understand who you are as organization and what kind of performance process is the focus because again most of the stakeholder has their own different priority in their head and by doing this exercise it's easier for them to see how everyone is different to each other and also conclude what is your company's ations priority for those performance design and because once you actually know how big those circles should be for each of the element it's easier for you to design April you easier to design a performance program that will be easier to with at your company culture and the needs for your management team and next couple slides we're going to talk about a few trends and best practice that actually works because we hear a lot of buzzwords and different trends on the article or newspapers but that they actually work so we put a some together to share with you that some of the trends that we actually see how that transform different organization I think in the old days the the managing really is about commanding and control and nowadays it's much more about connecting and inspire so the you see a lot of organization use the word coaching or a leader instead of the traditional word supervising or managing and most of the new school performance process is really focusing on not just about the past contribution but also focusing on the future capacity so it's more about development is about the future goals it's more forward-looking instead of backward looking and a lot of the compensate the competency program in those traditional performance process for example they want to know how good you are in communication time management strategic thinking problem-solving in a traditional way is there's a long list of the competencies that you want to do and nowadays I think most of the organization realized that you know human adult humans can only change one or two behavior at the time so there's no point doing like 30 competencies evaluation while you really just want them to focus on one or two critical behavior that want to change and then set realistic go about it and the a lot of trend also folks shifting from just individual contribution to how we do things together so there's actually definitely you can see that the team or the group focus it's actually on the rise and then last but not least is the numerical rating or labeling has been replaced by words so traditionally you would see a lot of one two three four or five four three two one kind of ratings but nowadays it's more common to hear people saying that meets or do not meet or exceed or some people use were as outstanding or excellent all the best different kind of wording to describe it and I think provide a bit more meaning for employee about those ratings I've been said I'm just gonna jump in for a sec we're experiencing a little bit of static I'm not sure if it's a bit of background noise on your end or if it could be a headset issue but just for folks we are aware of it and we're we're going to continue on with the session Vincent I'll jump in if it continues and we may have to get you to phone in if if it is ongoing okay if it better no or I think that sounds better so but we'll just keep monitoring and I will let you know us if it continues okay thank you so much the next slide there's more of the sort of trends and best practices for a lot of optimization traditionally they have this formal review maybe is once a year or twice a year I think the definitely the trend that actually is working as a frequent touch points and checking's and that actually has been adopted of whether you actually switch to the know rating performance process or stick with your current process we found that a lot of organization will be very very great that if you if they start to increase the touch point in terms of the frequencies but that doesn't have to be long but we want to make sure that there's much more frequent checking between the manager employees that you should work really well and then the next trend also works really well is having employee feel have more ownership about this process instead of calling this a performance appraisal it's a top-down approach a lot of meditation now it's really saying if the bottom-up approach you hear the language like employee on their own career and their performance so that it's employee as you own it and some organization described it as a shared accountability between companies and the employees so the the trend definitely is giving that from the top-down approach to bottom-up or two direction to sort of find a middle ground approach for the performance process and also the a lot of organizations start to thinking about multiple recognition opportunities and that's you notice that for the past couple years recognition program it's actually a very important thing now so it's not just about salary or bonus or opportunity to do to be promoted but also there's a peer to peer recognition there is a more frequent organization wise recognition program happening and the many of you probably have watched Daniel Pink's TED talk and that's probably one of the most popular HR tech talk ever it's really try to describe the phenomena that people realize that the traditional view of using money to drive performance it's not necessary all true many people now believe that the self determination is actually the real reason that people do a good job so I think that fundamentally changed a lot of people's view of our performers process particularly those ones that support the no rating system so that's actually a very important movement and last but not least is really changing even the words to describe the process from sort of performance appraisal to performance management now you definitely hear the word development alignment or feedback so it's actually even we have a client changed their performance process called coaching for success you don't even hear the word performance in the name of that process it's just basically coaching for success process so a lot of organizations using those more positive word to replace the traditional wording and this light we put some of the wording together to show you the pros and cons of ratings or no ratings we also post a article at the church village website so you can actually see more detail there about the big debate about whether we should have rating or not so what won't go through the detail of it but really is a good debate that happening which actually for people like like me it's the most exciting thing ever happened because 20 years ago there's there's no no way people gonna have this conversation saying let's take out the waiting for the performance process because we're gonna have like so why bother having a performance process if process if there's no rating nowadays people start to use a lot of science scientific research and actual experience to to show that actually you don't need to have that have a rating to make your performance process works so there's a lot of different reason for organization to say actually from a neural leadership perspective from a culture perspective that we really don't need a rating anymore and for a lot of NIH's ation they still think about well for a very good reason that we still need ratings because a cultural reason or we need the rating to be able to connect with my voice probe and clearly and objectively so I don't think the answer is so clear and also I don't really think that there is a clear decision to say which one is better whenever I've been asked by the with this question I always want to make sure that the organization understand who they are as organization and understanding that what kind of approach will work best for them and for those organizations that decide to keep the traditional ratings the next question usually it's about well if we're going to have ratings how many ratings do we need I usually use the next slide to share with the stakeholders to say well think about if your employees are running a marathon there's there's thousands of them running together is it really important to differentiate in the middle of the biggest crowd when they cross the finish line someone run through the finish line 20 minutes faster than the other or is it okay just to be happy that they all finished the marathon and then we should happy and celebrate the fact that they achieved the the goal that they set out to do so I think most of the business owners and executives and managers I taught you will agree that really we don't really need to know exactly who are the number 5260 or the 6,540 across the finish line that's not the important factor to differentiate to that level we want to make sure that majority of the people complete their journey doing a good job being successful and and and but we do want to know that mmm maybe some of the people trend extra hard and then they have extraordinary result and that is to say that well maybe there are some people really is running faster than the rest of the group then we want to recognize them maybe a medal or maybe some price too to recognize that they are deliver different kind of result than the rest of their people and then there will be some people struggling with the race so you know they maybe follow behind or they couldn't finish the race so right there we have three different groups already and some organization may be preferred four or five and study shows that whether you use three points or four point five points or even six the success of your rating system really is not about how many points you have it's how do you define them clearly so that people knows what is the difference between each of the group and I think if you think about how how much how many group you really need to cut a while employee running through marathon it's actually easier for you to think about how many groups do you really need in your performance rating system and when we have this rating debate there's another three key factors that will come into play one is management capability a lot of times that the the discussion of whether we're gonna have rating or not it's really about those our managers have the skills to deliver those for performance feedback without the ratings because often those ratings become a support system or crop crutch or for conversation no many managers instead of telling employees what they truly think they should improve they basically avoid that honest conversation by telling them you are a three and instead of telling them what is the actual behavior they need to change and so once you take out that ratings some of the manager may not know how to have that conversation with employees and then the other consideration is legally do you need to have something to be able to show that the improvement conversation is happening or sometimes the hrs worst nightmare is someone get layoffs because Palma's but there's no document or any record of that happening so many HR people worry about if we don't have performance ratings how do we know that someone is not performing and then the answer really if I provide that sort of insight is whether you have rating or not you still need to document those conversation if someone have performance issue right so many of our many of those performers process that without ratings still have a performance improvement plan which is a separate process to deal with employee really struggle think about those people who couldn't finish the marathon it's really the action is not just try to lay them off but also is to have a program to help them so that they can actually complete the race next year so I think the idea of legal consideration is important but we want to make sure that organization have if bakit way to deal with the non performing employees and that's actually whether you have rating or not it's still very important and the last one a piece is how does that gonna deal impact your rewards pay program and opportunity for career if you don't have rating system because if you have rating system for many organization that worried about then we're gonna be you know play favoritism or become a sort of discretionary decisions and they're gonna be seen as not a objective or not transparent so how do we ask you link our performance result to rewards and career opportunity become a big factor during this debate and this slide really is try to illustrate a little bit more about the last point I was trying to make because a lot of time that when we talk to a new client there's many times that you hear the this the executive director or CEO or owner says I want to have those new school performance system focusing on conversation and feedback we don't want the Oh school performance process that's great but they don't want to change their incentive plan or owners plan or salary increase program they still want to be quote objective has a scorecard or some sort of management so that they can actually do compensation objectively and that's actually become a problem because when you have a performance process it's about conversation and frequent checking then you if you have a compensation program it's basically based on actual scores or ratings and eventually those compensation programs become your new performance program right because the alignment between the performance program and incentive pay or salary increase is so important that you actually have to think about if you're gonna have a new school performance program then you can have a new school incentive program if you want a traditional incentive program then you make sure that your performance process still be able to produce those rating and calculations so that your program will be seen as objective and effective I'm going to use the rest of their time for this webinar to share with you a actual implementation experience with the credit union because I think that really try really share with you some insight about how we go about doing this the this is a small credit union that has a about 27,000 members ten branches 220 employees and the challenge has been the process it's dated nobody likes it inconsistent and no it's very similar to most of the organization and they do have the inspiration to be top employer for their province so the question is how do we actually change our performance process and they also recently implement a heart of coaching basically is a coaching exercise for their management it's sort of a management development program so they want to make sure that while managers start you have better coaching abilities the process will be able to let them utilize that new skills and then do a better job in performance management when we started we actually is an asset our sort of mind into a no rating system the the the credit union is very open-minded to say were open to any kind of results or a solution to it and so that's actually interesting journey with the organization to figure out what is the best solution for them so we start with the exercise understanding about what is their focus of their performance program what is the true purpose of their program and with the exercise with their key executive team members we actually realize that what is the most important thing for them really is the aligning that gold and objective organization them to team down to individual and they do want to focusing on developing their people to and the the alignment with rewards and recognition actually is less a issue for them a lot of comments you are here from the management executive is now very team or group orange it someone even say that they don't like those superstar because that create problem for everyone like language like that you know that the the organization really care about the group and collaboration instead of the individual performance and we start talking about the definition of the performance and one sort of aha moment is it's not like the organization doesn't like to focusing on those top performer or a high performer we should really shift our focus from focusing on those top performer or a top performing employee to high performing behaviors it's basically saying not just about those people certain employees will be able to demonstrate those high performing behaviors everybody be able to do that and I think that's a my mindset shift for the organization's to say let's not focusing on those people who we call that high-performing employees but focusing on how do we help everyone do you have those high performance behavior or high performing moment and so that's actually the more we talk about the the purpose of the the performance process the more we started thinking about the traditional rating doesn't really work with the new kind of thinking anymore and then finally conclude that we really don't need the traditional ratings because what we really need is a process that helped us align those goals and objectives and spend the time to talk about development programs for employees so the final result actually is actually quite simple it's only two-page form and then from the the manager employee needs you go through those questions under at least every two months space and we actually add several guiding questions for those performance planning and checking the idea is really it this is not just about ratings anymore this is really about conversation so we got feedback from the design team that the lot of manager really doesn't know how to start that conversation so on that forum we actually have some guiding questions for the manager so that at least they know what is the first question to ask how do they start that conversation and then combining their latest training on the coaching skills they can have a better conversation with employees really is it focusing on the discussions we still want them to have a documentation about what they talked about but we kind of make the space so small that they really can just capture the highlight it's not really want them to write a 2-page long notes about their conversation the the idea is every two month at least every two months we need to have that kind of a conversation about employees goal alignment and development and also a high performer recognition program is created and make sure that they elevate their current sort of informal recognition program to the next level so give them more resources and training for manager to know that when someone is demonstrating those high performance behavior let's recognize them right away so that actually we don't need to wait until the end of the year to say that someone is a top performer it's actually when those behavior happens let's recognize right away and in terms of the management capacity as we talked about that once you take all the ratings really the manager really has to speak for themselves what is the the behavior that make the employee standout or do a good job or need to improve so I think there's ongoing training for the managers introduce them to the new performance process and how do they focusing on the rare conditions and how do they make the how do those program impact the compensation decisions so basically the organization run a lot of sessions for the managers to help to understand the new programs and how they incorporate the coaching skills and also fun HR team will provide a lot of guides and tools that way the managers really feel confident that when they go into that conversation with employees they actually have a tools and material to prepare and then so that the conversation can be effective and last but not least on the legal side so there is a box at the end of the performance form to say that the manager need to initiate a performance improvement plan basically so that's also sometimes people saying there's no such thing as low rating system because any no rating system still has basically two ratings because you can say one rating a success the other one is an improvement in this case we separate the performance improvement process as a separate process so for most of the employees they won't see that form they no need to go through that process for most employees the performance process just basically a capture those frequent conversation and that's it but if this box is checked then there's a separate process just like Mosul organization has a standard typical performance improvement process for kicking and that way there is a proper document about we are formally start to have this conversation with this employee and if on evitable ii we have to let this employee go there's a proper document right there in as to the impact of their compensation program they had a traditional incentive plan basically has a corporate multiplier team multiplier in individual multiplier times their target percentage for each person I'm a person's job because the change then basically the we get to the executive and the board to agree that we're turning their incentive plan back to the traditional group sharing plan basically is saying that if two employees are both successful and both contributing then there won't be any differentiation between their pay basically the only differentiation of their bonus payout really is the financial result with at the year-end so if their credit union member got to have the payout for dividends and then the report employee will receive those payment and the message for their incentive plan is also changing from the traditional wording of like driving performers or recognize individual performers to sharing success so the message of the plan kind of switched from focusing on individual to sharing the overall success of the organization on the basic salary what they did is basically let the the different zone of each range to decide what is the sour increase that is to say that if you are in certain job range and if you're in the low end of the range you will get more a sour increase and then if you're in the high end of the range you'll get less and manager has some discretionary control over that decision but they have to change those numbers within their pool so that basically give manager enough guidance to say how they can actually use a consistent guideline to decide the salary increase but there's still a small room for the manager to do some discretionary changes in within their team and also because that discretionary we added a formal secondary review so calibration process to make sure that there's another level of the executive has been review the the result so gives the employee a sort of extra peace of mind that it's what managers use those discretionary decision-making it will be reviewed by the next level executives the outcome actually is as as we were everybody was very anxious this is their second year already implementing this definitely they notice that there's actually significant time savings because Ashley they're actually be able to do those small checking throughout the year so they actually don't need to have those long year-end review and also the anxiety level definitely decreased and that's not just about the employee you feel like less than anxious is actually for a lot of manager they feel like they they were actually looking forward to have that conversation instead of sort of nervous about that conversation once a year because then now they actually just focusing on the actual performance alignments the actual behavior and then not worry about the the rating for the majority of the employees and a many manager actually saying that because there's no ratings or year-end review they actually deal with the non perform non performing employee much sooner because they're not waiting to the end of the year to give that person a bad rating to send a message they basically just give that person the the rec and honors conversation to say things that you're not doing well and how we can help you to improve that and also because the there's always a fear of without ratings we may not be doing a good job for those non performing employees actually the the HR noticed that the organization is more proactively dealing with those non performing employees because we don't want to because that you give this process at bad name so surprisingly Ashley the the breeze out is the manager feel like they're more comfortable sharing those good news story with employees and on the other hand we also be able to deal with those bad performers much more effectively and then we got a lot of really good feedback from their branch manager and meat management team and this is just one of them I want to share with you to give you that true feeling about this is their actual words how they actually feel about the the new performance management system and how they impact their pay so I think that really for this particular organization things really worked out really well for them because their culture and that they're believing what is the true performers and how they recognize them so last but not least let's talk about if you're going to go for this journey and start thinking about let's take out the rating for your performance process or you currently have those performance process that without rating already so we want to make sure that organization do thinking about the alignment with their organization performance and their people development because that actually is the most of the common reason that organization switched to the know rating system but again sometime your stakeholder may think that way so this is something that you do want to check if the Asha will work for you and then consider that watch and the how factors write aligning the key behavior value to each of the goals and separate the behavior value of goals because a lot of time that when they actually mix together sometimes manager doesn't know how to articulate that well so a lot of the process will actually help the manager to say what they have achieved and how they achieved and then shifting from a those traditional documentation to a more coaching style really work for a lot of a organization and manager nowadays so the the frequent checking to ensure that performance on track and focusing on the future rather than the past really is the most organization try to focus in nowadays that moving away from the appraisal to the future development and I think if you're actually thinking about those are the things that you you actually are focusing on and there may be a opportunity for you to explore more about the no rating performance process and last but not least is a checklist to make sure that if you're actually going to go for that direction make sure that you actually have a program in place to help the transition because I've found the management at the capability perspective we definitely cannot assume that manager can just have that conversation without a rating they need to be trained they need to have a session for them to practice how that new conversation going to happen so a lot of resources and training and support really is required and if on a legal perspective want to make sure that you still have the process to be able to have the documentation even though the focus of the documentation is very different now but you still want to make sure that you can deal with the legal considerations and last but not least as I mentioned yeah with when you go through this design make sure that you're also focusing on how those performance result will impact the paid decisions or opportunity for the career again it doesn't have to be ratings but if that's not ratings and what will be the factors and how that process gonna look like hopefully that the case of this credit union implementation provides you some of the insight and tangible takeaway and that's it that's my presentation and I assume we can open up for people to have some questions wonderful Thank You Vincent and I want to thank everyone who's been on the call and finding some really great questions I also want to thank you all for your patience with a little bit of static that we had going on of course as these things happen that was not a problem in our to practice sessions so often Tec wants to just rear its ugly head as soon as we go live so appreciate your patience and hanging in there with that I think we could jump in with this fantastic question we have from Noreen basically looking at if you've had a rating system in the past and maybe it's actually had a bit of a negative impact on your staff it hasn't been well-received how do you heal that rift and move towards a no ratings system how do we make staff more comfortable yes and I think we're taking the the learning from this exercise is when you've designed a new program definitely that's an opportunity to refresh people's memory and definitely fun if you think about changing find your traditional rating system to a non rating system it's a fundamental change and then definitely give you a lot of opportunity to rebrand the whole process and definitely if the the focus of the conversation the frequency will be different and also the other thing you can think about is how do you describe this process by even just from the superficial changing the name of the process is different the other idea we did in this implementation is we do have the employee focus group to be part of the process there are not decision makers but they actually participating in how we implement and how we communicate to employees so some of the employee has that sort of participation throughout the process and they later on they become the the number one fan of the new process and then they basically informally really help the organization have that credibility to say employee will support the new process so I think the definitely fun sort of fundamental changes from the little the name change and also when you implement this process you can think about how to engage the employees so that they understand the differences that's great and when it comes to training for managers do you I know you mentioned the heart of coaching training is there any other training or development resources that you recommend for that yeah and actually the the for that particular credit union that's the the program they chose and definitely I know means I'm saying that's the only one there's so many different training program for for for the organization to choose or many organization has their internal training program but I think the most important training I think for most of the manager is the goal-setting and feedback based on our experiences most of the managers if they can do this two thing well with employees then it's pretty much 99% of your performance process helping people develop their career those things are its II usually it's an easier conversation the difficult one is the how do you set goals for your employees and then again sometimes the organization want employee to set their goals first and then get their managers input sometime is the collaboration but the most difficult part is how do you write it down to say well we have a payroll coordinator so they do payroll what is the goal for this payroll person how they're going to connect with our organization's mission and and strategic goals right so for a lot of manager is really hard to do so and my my recommendation is Ashley can run a workshop that we've done before is to get on all the management together and actually utilizing the peer coaching as as a way to help make them help each other to prepare those goal-setting for their employees it's actually quite amazing when when those manager get together and talk about the challenges and how they gonna set the goal for their team suddenly the ideas start to happen and then they start to help each other to complete that process so they have some idea about how to set goals but the other one I've talked about the training is about how to give people feedback and that can be a standalone training because it's not necessary just about the performance process for coaching I think a big part of the job for a manager is how to give employee feedback whether that's positive or negative a lot of times that it's a kind of awkward conversation again I want to emphasize sometimes even give people positive feedback it's an awkward experience for some people some manager doesn't know how to do it that properly either they overdo it or undo it in terms of the difficult conversation by people negative impact again that has to be done carefully fact-based and then also provide a support so those things that most of the organization can find a lot of resources online or a sort of current training programs that provided by many vendors or your in-house HR can easily develop some of the the program and my experience is it it doesn't have to be very content heavy because again most of your managers actually heard of those theories and practice the theory and the principle of those feedback what they really need is to get together and you force them to practice among themselves so I've seen even just some of times the HR can just prepare some scenarios and then give those manager to practice each other and give each other some tips about how they do those feedback session so my point is you don't if you don't have budget to run a a large or truly structured feedback training you can even just run a small workshop give them some scenario and practice among themselves that's a great tip now it seems like traditional reading or yeah traditional reading systems tend to sort of focus on past behaviors and we've noticed that you know you're talking a lot here about sort of not focusing on past behaviors necessarily with this system if in a traditional system the past behavior observation was used to help an employee with development or goal-setting for the future how would this be handled with this process so you're saying is inevitably we still need to touch based on the past performance in order to the future may so I think the need to talk about what happened but I think we just want to train the manager have that mindset in their mind to say is the reason we talk about what happened is really not try to stay there it really is try to so that we can go forward and I think a lot of times that managers job is not just try to describe what went wrong but also is try to describe like what do I want to see so I think that give manager a sort of a challenge for them for many of them because they're it's easier for for humans who point out something it's not going well or some someone is not doing something but I think we just want to make sure that manager has a better preparation to say well if someone is not doing their job or someone is not working out what is the things that we want that person to do and then again that's actually a why of one of the reason why we're switching from managing to coaching for example it really is the manager need to have a new way of thinking about this topic to say is if I were your coach how can I describe or support you to get you we want you to be awesome and this is a question that's come up a lot you can probably expect this from our nonprofit audience Vincent obviously most nonprofits don't have capacity to be looking at monetary bonuses or incentives or possibly even salary increases what what do you recommend if there's a shift to this new school performance management to help make rewards and recognition sincere and fulfilling without that monetary aspect and I would actually argue that it's actually because you don't have a lot of ability to use money to reward people then actually force you to be truly genuine about when you give someone a recognition again doesn't have to be money a lot of times that the people don't want to generalize it but my experience has been a lot of employees work in this sector because they truly has a belief that what they're doing really can make a difference so a lot of the employees in this sector are truly believing the mission of the organization and then understanding that what they are doing everyday can can make a difference in their community so I think the in a way that not-for-profit sector has the best opportunity to practice the no rating system because no you don't have a lot of most of the organization doesn't have a lot of money to do salary increase or bonus or anything like that so really is by switching or focusing on the no rating system you're focusing on the conversation and recognition and development instead of thinking about how they're gonna link to the pay now a lot of people may criticize you say well then how do you differentiate people's performance how do you try performance without money I think the again in in this particular sector actually the answer it's much easier because a lot of employees may not necessarily be driven by money that's why they really want to work on certain cause were certain a focus of the not-for-profit sector so I think the the focus for the manager really is helping them how do they I should be able to deliver back to while we talk about feedback and coaching is part of that is actually how to recognize people I think the there's many way to actually telling someone they're doing a good job I think the we part of the training you probably have heard is know if you just tell people saying you're doing a good job that's not necessarily a best way to recognize people but if you actually is telling someone they did a good job and what is the impact of their good job and that really starts you know show that that your your feedback or your recognition start to have much more impact of that employees so I would definitely encourage the organization spend more time thinking about how do we recognize people and then not necessary again using money to do so wonderful and our last question for the day Vincent we've had this come up from quite a few folks is there anywhere you can recommend to check out the the form you were talking about the two-page form for discussion guiding that discussion that managers are having are there resources available online to get more information about that oh that's great question actually why don't we try this because we that particular form is designed for that client but what we can do is we can actually take some of the questions out of that form and then how about work with marina and then try to post down your website so that people can have a ability to see how we help those manager using those guiding questions that sounds fantastic I'm sure our audience would very much appreciate that so folks we will work on that and do our best to get that information out to you I'm going to close things there because we're on the top of the hour thank you again Vincent you gave us lots to think about in this session lots of great tips but who I just want to remind everyone we are gonna follow up with you by email you should get that this afternoon maybe tomorrow morning with the webinar recording in the slide deck there is a short survey there takes less than five minutes to fill out and we hope you'll complete that for us if you can you have an opportunity there to let us know if there's other topics you'd like to see covered in a future session and we'll share that feedback with Vincent as well so if you have anything that you want to make sure that that Vincent hears about the presentation please be sure to fill out that survey we'll be wrapping up this month leadership series next week on May 23rd with a free webinar on five tips to improve culture at your organization and we hope that we'll see you there there will be a link to register in the email that you receive later today or tomorrow morning thank you again very much for joining us today and we hope to see you next week have a great day everyone bye-bye

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